METAL NIGHTMARE: PENTACLE INTERVIEW 2000

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In a lot of older metal, especially that from the '80s, there is a certain feeling that just hits you in the gut. If you have heard albums from bands such as CELTIC FROST, POSSESSED, or BATHORY, you know exactly what I'm talking about. In the '90s, that particular feeling has gotten harder and harder to come by. But when you find it, you remember it exactly, and you take note of the band that gave it back to you. Holland's PENTACLE is just such a band. Bassist/ vocalist Wannes Gubbels is here to remind to not to forget that ancient feeling, because it still rules!

Looking at the state of the current scene, would you say that metal has lost its way?

Through the development of the past few years, metal got a new definition with new waves and styles. But the essence of metal is still the same as years ago. I mean, whatever big magazine invents a new form of metal or calls a new band the hottest new "metal-act," the fans of real metal know what to do and how to act. Certainly there are loads of bands of whom I don't consider to be metal bands at all. Progression is necessary, and that includes our scene as well, but certain developments are beyond the spectrum of what is defined as "metal." I believe there are enough fans and bands who have the knowledge, so I'm not afraid that our precious metal scene will lose its way.

Beyond the underground, there's the so-called "new metal," with bands like KORN and MACHINE HEAD. What's your opinion on them, or should I even bother to ask?

[laughs] I'm definitely not into these kinds of bands. Even when I think it's up to everyone to enjoy whatever kinds of music they like, bands like these are still not my cup of tea. They have nothing interesting to offer to me. I'm not into their style, and that's it!

How about the fact that some of the older bands have felt the need to "evolve," like what MORGOTH did, or even KREATOR?

It depends on the musical concept each individual band has. Some bands want to progress through the years. Take for example, DEATH. Each record is different from its predecessor, because progression is very important for Chuck [Schuldiner]. He states this pretty often in interviews, I have noticed. What I respect so much is that he, and they, don't leave their musical roots. OK, their latest effort [The Sound of Perseverance] was for sure not a second Scream Bloody Gore, but it's still very typical DEATH. They progressed album after album, but kept their roots in metal. That's the way DEATH will sound in the future as well. Like a metal band and nothing else. When a concept of a band isn't that strict, for example bands like the ones you mentioned, you get a different sound that their older records. These musicians want to try something new, to experiment. That's fine with me. It's their band and not mine, but oftentimes those bands leave their previous styles too far behind them, which is no advantage. Again, it's up to the bands themselves to decide what they want to do. If they want to experiment, fine, but if they want to stick with their old style, that's great as well. Some experiments are very cool, like CELTIC FROST's Into the Pandemonium, but most times I don't like what experimental bands are trying to achieve. I'm more into the straightforward thing, but I appreciate the fact that they're trying to do something new instead of the "good old metal-thing." At least they try something risky, we don't! [laughs]

Do you think that having an image is important? Some say no, but would VENOM or IRON MAIDEN have been the same without their image?

If you want it or not, every band has its image. Image and music are two different things. A band can dress themselves like good old SARCOFAGO did with the paint and studs, or can choose to put on some hats and to wear some short trousers. For PENTACLE it's important to have an image. I believe image and music are there to support each other. Our music has a distinctive '80s death metal vibe. The music is dark, aggressive and brutal. It would be totally unthinkable for us to hit the stage like old ANTHRAX did. You know, with their bermudas and stuff. Our music has a certain atmosphere, and our image transforms this into something visual. You hear our music and you see us on stage, and those two elements just fit! Maybe this conviction comes forth from the fact that I grew up with the '80s scene and always loved the "outfit" bands like VENOM, POSSESSED, DESTRUCTION, HELLHAMMER, and CELTIC FROST. Extreme music and extreme outfits! Just as one plus one equals two. Of course, the music is the most important thing. The image is there to help give the music a visual aspect. Not every death metal band has to wear studs, leather and bullet-belts, but a dark approach is needed, as those bands play extreme music. Otherwise it just wouldn't fit! Maybe it would be more "fun-like." I totally hate it when a death metal band dresses up like clowns. It's just an insult for this dark music! So back to your question, it's important to have an image, but music has the priority. About VENOM and IRON MAIDEN, they certainly have images that fit their music very well. And I don't believe they would have made the same impact without an image as they did with. The whole thing VENOM did with their studs and leather just fit their raw and unpolished music. They took metal to the next extreme, and a suitable image helped them a lot. As for MAIDEN, they have a different approach for sure, but it supports their music as well. Here I have arrived at a very important point. As I said before, it's the music that counts. I despise an image that is made in order to sell a lot of records. When a band has an image, it must be something natural and not made up just for the bucks. I understand that in commercial terms it's often better to have a certain image, but I'm not into that. The musician must be into it with their hearts, otherwise it's just a business move. And business and metal often collide, right?

Too true. But you know, at the same time, is it important to have a balance between seriousness and fun? Again, look at VENOM who had a good time on stage, and some of these "more evil than thou" black metal bands who have some great songs, but don't seem to be having fun.

It's up to everyone to decide how they want to act. Personally, I don't want to see a death or black metal band act funny on stage. It's totally against the spirit and kind of nature of this extreme music. Just imagine if MORBID ANGEL were to start playing childish tunes during a concert because they want to have some fun! No, this is serious music, and I want to see a serious attitude on stage when dealing with a death or black metal band. Of course you can have fun when you play such music, but definitely not on stage. I like to laugh and make jokes, but I would never do this on stage when I'm playing such extreme music like what we're doing. VENOM was definitely an exception. Yes, they had fun on stage, but I guess they needed this to as a break in the attitude they had almost the whole time. It was more to let some steam off and not to be the characters Cronos, Mantas, and Abbadon the whole time. It certainly fit them well.

Is it fair to say that the older music has more of a "real" feeling? I would have said "true," but that's a really loaded word these days.

I would say no, because there are loads of bands who have the right feeling to play extreme music. Just think of bands like DESASTER, GOSPEL OF THE HORNS, DESTROYER 666, ETERNAL HATRED, GOD DETHRONED, CENTURIAN, INCANTATION, USURPER, OCCULT, VOMITORY, NILE, HYPNOSIA, SINISTER, EMPEROR, WARHAMMER and MAZE OF TORMENT. Those bands have a cool attitude which doesn't differ that much from the older bands like NUNSLAUGHTER, SATHANAS, ANCIENT RITES, SADISTIC INTENT, NECROPHAGIA and ASPHYX. The '80s were definitely different from the '90s, but every decade has both its advantages and disadvantages. I mean, in the '80s you could almost buy every extreme metal record, because the quality aspect was better. At the same time, the professionalism these days is often better. Just compare certain demos or magazines to the ones in the '80s. It's just much better. I often hear people say the '80s were more exciting. I agree with that. I can remember buying the records of bands like SLAYER, CELTIC FROST, POSSESSED, SACRIFICE, INFERNAL MAJESTY, DEATH, MERCYFUL FATE, BATHORY, VENOM, HELLHAMMER, KREATOR, DESTRUCTION and loads more. Almost every album was great and has become a classic. Getting an album like To Mega Therion or Beyond the Gates was a real happening! Or the gigs. Seeing KREATOR or CELTIC FROST for the first time. This changed over time. I'm not that excited anymore when I buy a new record and very seldom do I get this feeling back that I had when I bought records in the '80s. I miss it, but there's nothing you can do. I've heard and seen too much to get really enthusiastic. A pity.

I don't know about you, but I sometimes find it amazing that bands like CELTIC FROST or BATHORY did what they did with their music. These days, it would be easy to write such things since it has been done before. But those two bands were completely different than anything out there at the time. Even with VENOM, you can tell that they mixed punk rock with JUDAS PRIEST type stuff. But FROST and BATHORY were just so far out there for their time period.

Those bands were indeed very much ahead of their time, but on their earlier records you can hear certain influences as well. Just take the first BATHORY. You can notice the VENOM influences, just as on Morbid Tales one can definitely hear the NWOBHM influences. Just listen to the first riff of "Dethroned Emperor." It's almost the same as DIAMOND HEAD's "Am I Evil?". The positions are a bit different, but the idea is almost completely identical. Or listen to Into the Pandemonium. This album was hailed for its originality. It brought a fresh wind in metal, but those moaning vocals were very much into the CHRISTIAN DEATH style. It was not a common thing in the metal scene, but influences of other music were used here. So BATHORY as well as CELTIC FROST have had their share of influences, but that's a common thing. Every band has an origin and is a development of other bands' music. There are very few bands who don't have any influences. As those two bands came forth from heavy metal and hard rock, they created something new with their own style. They needed some time to develop a real style of their own like on Under the Sign of the Black Mark or To Mega Therion, but those albums are monumental!

No, I don't. I like CDs because they're very practical. You don't have to turn them over, and they're not as vulnerable as an LP. I have loads of CDs here at my home, but I would rather buy the LP version of a new record, just like I did with the new IMMOLATION and MERCYFUL FATE. Looking at these records, especially IMMOLATION's new album, it reminds me why I prefer an LP instead of a CD. Just look at the artwork. On this format it just looks great! Much better than the small booklet of a CD. I totally prefer PENTACLE's double LP version of ...Rides the Moonstorm over the CD. The gatefold cover looks amazingly good. The artwork on the front cover just kills! The collage inside with all the photos is like a blast from the past! And of course there's the nostalgic aspect of vinyl, as I grew up with LPs and not CDs. Often the sound on a record is more heavy than on the CD. There's more bass, and it just "lives" more. So would rather buy an LP, but when they're not available, a CD is fine as well.

I read several interviews where it was talked about that ...Rides the Moonstorm would have a cover song on it. Did this end up happening? 'Cause if it did, it's not one that I recognize! My promo copy doesn't say which track it is.

We did a song by the Chilean band PENTAGRAM. It's the seventh song on the album, called "Spell of the Pentagram. It's taken from their first demo. The other two songs they did ended up on a 7" released by the Swiss label Chainsaw Murder Records back in the '80s. We wanted to do this cover because PENTACLE has other influences other than just the well known '80s bands that released records. There are a lot of underground bands who released only demos or EPs and have influenced us. Here you must think about bands like NECROVORE, PENTAGRAM and TREBLINKA. Furthermore, there are loads of bands who never got any recognition for what they did for the underground. This cover version is like a kind of "Thanks!" for what they did, like releasing cool demos. There are people who have said they couldn't hear the difference between our own material and the cover version. In my opinion, "Spell of the Pentagram" is a bit more too the point and not that technical, but the feeling is the same as our own material. Namely, it's pure ancient death metal! When people make this comment I see it as a compliment, as it proves we have our musical roots in the '80s.

I guess you can call it a lack of interest on their side. In the beginning they did their best for us. They released The Fifth Moon on CD and paid for the ANCIENT RITES tour, but after a certain amount of time, I never heard from them again. I guess the sales weren't what they expected, but I heard from other bands about this behavior, so I guess it's not that uncommon. I find it very important for us to have a good relationship with our label, otherwise we tend to work on our own instead of doing the job together. There has to be good communication, certainly about matters which are of direct concern for the band. I want to know what is happening. It can take a lot of time, but at least I have the information and know what to do. This was not the case with Displeased Records. I'm thankful for what they did for us. I'm glad they released The Fifth Moon and promoted it, but it was a business decision to change labels, and for now I don't regret it.

They are doing their job very well. We're the first band for which they've done a lot of promotion, as they are a very small label, and the releases they have sell on their own. For this one, they decided to work a bit differently and in this case it means a good world-wide promotion with loads of flyers and ads. They spread a large amount of promo CDs to all kinds of magazines and distributions all over the world. Although we're not a big-seller, we're doing pretty well thanks to the good promotion and music! I'm very satisfied with their work, and although some things are going a bit slow in the end everything works out fine. They have some very cool bands like GOSPEL OF THE HORNS, and ETERNAL HATRED. They've also got some interesting upcoming releases of stuff by WARHAMMER, JUDGEMENT DAY, and RAZOR OF OCCAM. We see and talk to each other pretty often, so I know what is going on with the label.

Wannes: We did loads of shows last year. We gigged with bands like GOD DETHRONED, SINISTER, ANCIENT RITES, DESASTER, IMMORTAL, CENTURIAN, CANNIBAL CORPSE, HOUWITSER, OBTRUNCATION, MARDUK, ANGEL CORPSE, OBITUARY, PLEURISY, MANGLED and many more. I like it very much to play live, as I think PENTACLE does its job very well on stage. At the moment we don't do gigs because we're very busy with new material and we want to concentrate on it at this point. We've done no tours because our drummer and guitarist have steady jobs, and would have difficulties getting enough days off for doing such a tour. A pity, because I would like to go on tour. We've gotten several offers, like a tour with MORBID ANGEL, but it fell through.

We're working on two releases right now. We'll do a double 7" because this year is our ten year anniversary. This release will contain three new songs, plus two covers. We're doing DEATH's "Witch of Hell" and "Legion of Doom." Furthermore, we'll do a split 10" with DESASTER from Germany. We're good friends and wanted to do something together. This 10" will contain 4 songs. We'll do a DESASTER cover and contribute a new track, and they'll do a PENTACLE song and a new one as well. Iron Pegasus Records will release this one. The new material is very brutal. Some parts are the fastest stuff we've ever done. The songs are a bit shorter, but full ahead! We've also been asked to contribute a song for an upcoming POSSESSED tribute. We haven't decided yet what song to do, but we'll probably pick something from Beyond the Gates. We'll see about that.

In closing, I would also like to mention that ASPHYX is one band that has also had a lot of influence on PENTACLE. How does it feel to now be part of a band that you were a fan of?

You're right about that. ASPHYX always had its share of influences on PENTACLE. I've known Bob [Bagchus] since 1988 when I ordered their first tape. Since then I've kept in contact with Bob through the years, even when he was out of ASPHYX for a certain period of time. After they split up in 1996, we did a band together with former ASPHYX guitarist Eric Daniels called SOULBURN. This different name was to give the band a new start. We did a promo tape and one CD called Feeding on Angels. It was on Century Media Records, but it wasn't released in the States for reasons I do not know. It was basic primitive death metal in the old ASPHYX style. As the style wasn't that much different from ASPHYX, and loads of people were asking for ASPHYX, we decided to bring the old name back. Furthermore, it just felt wrong for Bob and Eric to play in a different band than ASPHYX. It's great to play the repetoire we do. Those songs are killer and haven't lost any of their brutality or aggression. We just did a gig with GOD DETHRONED and it just raged! It's an honor to play in such a legendary death metal band as ASPHYX, but my heart is still with PENTACLE.